In case you ever wondered why a radical feminist believes killing unborn babies (including girls) is ok, Mia spells it out.
First, she lists some very general statements:
- I’m pro-choice because I believe women are people,
- I’m pro-choice because I want to decide when I have a child,
- I’m pro-choice because I have two younger sisters,
- I’m pro-choice because I trust other women to make choices about their own lives,
- I’m pro-choice because sex should be awesome,
None of which have the slightest bearing on the abortion debate.
- I’m pro-choice because of all the women who have died and are dying from illegal abortions,
Ok, that’s one that we can take seriously.
- I’m pro-choice because of all the women who have died and are dying because they couldn’t get an illegal abortion,
That’s one we can’t.
- I’m pro-choice because parenting is a hard important job and must be voluntary,
Yep, and preventing crime is an important job too, but we don’t accomplish it by shooting people before they become criminals. This goes in the “not seriously” basket.
- I’m pro-choice because I know how hard women fought in New Zealand to ensure women would have access to abortion.
While this one is more serious, it’s says nothing about abortion itself, just the fight to get it.
Why I am against abortion:
- It kills defenseless children
- It destroys women emotionally
- In the case of incest, it abets the crime by removing the most tangible evidence, meaning the crime can continue
- It has destroyed the adoption alternative, something many couples who cannot conceive would like to use but can’t
- Even if properly performed, abortions can reduce fertility
- It cheapens the value of human life – witness Mia excusing infanticide
- It gives power to men to get rid of babies they’d rather not have
- It de-humanises the doctors who perform it
That’s just a few, I’m sure I could think up more if I took the time.
Oh, while we’re on the topic here’s a link that might interest people. Quite consistent with my own experience.
Something should go here, maybe later. 
First, she lists some very general statments:
* I’m pro-choice because I believe women are people, [so are the babies inside of a mother. the only thing added to the child during development is nutrients, after egg and sperm unite.]
* I’m pro-choice because I want to decide when I have a child, [then you should have been more careful. live up to your mistakes and take responsiility]
* I’m pro-choice because I have two younger sisters, [ha ha]
* I’m pro-choice because I trust other women to make choices about their own lives, [what about the women who sell their children on streetcorners as hookers? or the ones that beat them to the point where they have beain dammage? how about when a mother kills a child? aren’t you sad to hear a 3 year old die? why is it any different for a developing child?]
* I’m pro-choice because sex should be awesome, [being pregnant doesn’t make sex less awesome]
None of which have the slightest bearing on the abortion debate.
* I’m pro-choice because of all the women who have died and are dying from illegal abortions, [they need to not have an abortion in the first place]
Ok, that’s one that we can take serously.
* I’m pro-choice because of all the women who have died and are dying because they couldn’t get an illegal abortion, [id like to see that statistics on that one. sorry but it sounds like you pulled that out of your butt]
That’s one we can’t.
* I’m pro-choice because parenting is a hard important job and must be voluntary, [how do you know how the child will act? you could be killing the child that calls 911 when you are knocked unconcious in the tub. raising children is hard, but its worth it if you raise them right]
Yep, and preventing crime is an important job too, but we don’t accomplish it by shooting people before they become criminals. This goes in the “not seriously” basket.
* I’m pro-choice because I know how hard women fought in New Zealand to ensure women would have access to abortion.[ people fought hard in the south for slavery, should we just honor them? youre ignoring the fact that people have fought hard against it too]
Good points.
Good stuff Scrubone.
I can see more and more, this theme coming through from the feminists/left – they just don’t have answers. They either ignore the facts, or tell you lies and expect you to believe them. Case in point, the Section59 debate. Was impressed with both this post, and this post.
Keep it up!
I intend to 🙂
What impresses me about the s59 debate is that the left have shifted their message so many times, while we are still making the same points as we were when we started 🙂
Well, I am pro-choice for abortion. I am also against smacking. Just thought I’d let you all know that for no particular reason. Not much point explaining my views on this thread because there’s obviously too many opposing views to mine so that whatever I could say about my views probably wouldn’t be accepted as a view that is valid for someone to have.
Well here in the US, Planned Parenthood was founded by Margaret Sanger this woman was a Racists and the reason Abortions were needed was to prevent Blacks from having Babies, To Quote her “We do not want word to get out that we want to exterminate the Negro population” Maybe these are some of your reasons to be Pro Choice??
check this site out http://blackgenocide.org/photos.html you Pro Choicers should not be shocked, after all it is only a medical procedure.
I also want to Quote one more Important Women in Womens Rights and Important Historical Feminist on Abortion. This being Susan B Anthony “No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life, it will burden her soul in death; But oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the crime!
Somehow these words are rarely if ever mentioned by modern Feminist or Pro Choicers!
I am not Pro choice regarding abortion in order to “exterminate the Negro population”. Just because that Margaret Sanger woman may have been Pro choice in order to do that, doesn’t mean that everyone that is Pro choice is Pro choice in order to achieve that horrible objective. I had never actually heard of Margaret Sanger before, which I think shows that I am far removed from her ‘circle’, so to speak.
Margeret Sanger was The Founder of Planned Parenthood, I am sure most people know of them, and that is why they were founded, just because they call it Choice, the end result is still the ending of a Human Life. So it starts in your body, then take precautions to prevent it from happening but in most cases it happens over and over and over again, and taking there was no comment to Susan B Anthony’s quote I take you knew who she was. It all comes down to Personal Responsibility, If someone does not want kids, then they need to take Personal Responsibility BEFORE they have sex or not have sex at all. But then who can believe people want to be personally responsible for anything now, we have politicians claiming it is someone else’s fault, the pro athletes in trouble with the law, huge fights starting at Soccer/Football games, over a GAME! And we expect people to act like adults!
Another riveting comment from you, Allen! How interesting.
I do think that women should think seriously before aborting but I still think that they should have the option available to them. This includes all women, no matter what race.
ya al need 2 fink bwt using protection if ya dnt wna keep a baby it ur own fault end of day get a grip on urselfs its sik!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Abortions should not be aloud to happen killing an inocent child is like killing yourself and I sont think it should go down like that me myself im not for abortions but people have their own opinions and standards they go by so be it BUT IM AGAINST it
first of all a + loud doesn’t make allowed. second of all im pro choice because i believe that a women has a choice whether or not she wants to have a child. do you think that its an easy choice? that she wakes up and thinks to herself ‘wash my face, feed the dog, get an abortion, oh yeah and call my mom.’? if you do your as ignorant as that man showing the pictures of the dead black children. and as a mostly black woman who is pro choice i am personally offened that he even posted that on an abortion site. they’re NOT the same thing.
No idea what you’re on about there, I’m picking it’s a US thing.
I have no doubt that having an abortion is a hard choice for many – especially having to live with it after the fact. But that doesn’t excuse it.
Interesting that you don’t actually try to give good reasons yourself, which is the point of the article – even it’s most ardent supporters can give no good reasons for it.
what do you mean i didn’t give a good reason? did you not read it? it was the second sentence. what are you talking about US thing? i said nothing about the US. and i’m not saying that the fact that its hard is an excuse. if you right wing conservatives would actually think for like one second maybe evn put yourself in there shoes you’d see what they go through. furthermore what do you want them to do have the children and give them inadequate care or would you rather they put them in a foster care system. because i’ve heard its so good. i read in an article from the columbus dispatch that kids in foster homes do worse than kids in abusive households.
I take it then you are saying that you are “pro choice because i believe that a women has a choice whether or not she wants to have a child”.
Indeed. There is a time to make that choice – before intercourse. After conception, life has started and to end it is murder.
If I sign up to buy a house, I can walk away from the contract before closure but only if there’s a problem with the house (and I put the correct clause in the contract). Other than that, I have to forfeit my deposit. I can’t just terminate my responsibilities just because I don’t like them – I’ve made bad choices and I have to live with them. That’s life – it sucks sometimes.
My attitude towards buying a hose is “I’m better to have lost 20,000 paying for experts or missing a bargain than loosing 100,000 having to pay to fix a broken house”.
If only people took that amount of care with their relationships.
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As for your other comments – fostering is not a good option, and it’s not really relevant here, as the alternative to abortion is adoption. There is a severe shortage of babies for adoption, to the point where there is literally only a handful (like, 8) adoptions that take place in this country each year.
Besides, I’d far rather be bought up in an abusive household or foster home than be dead. It’s no contest.
As for your comments about placing myself in someone elses’ shoes, I would rather die that take the life of an innocent life. I’m not interested in having a life if to do so I have to step over the dead bodies of others.
And I don’t think having “awesome sex” is a good excuse to kill someone.
first of all did you just compare a child to a house? they’re not the same thing. and just because a woman is sexually active doesn’t mean that she’s not responsible, she made a mistake she shouldn’t have to live with it for the rest of her life. regardless if she puts the baby up for adoption nine months she’ll have to deal with it. then again i’m sure you don’t make mistakes. and as to your first comments i’m sure women do think before they have sex and whether or not they thought about it won’t make a difference. the only thing that could make a difference is if she had unprotected sex(that’s sex without a condom). and when the baby is just conseved its not a person it has no gender its not a person. i don’t mean to sound cold hearted but its just the facts. and i never said having awesome sex is an excuse.
Unfortuatly some mistakes you do live with for the rest of your life. That’s just life. I’ve made plenty thanks very much, and I live with them as my responsibility.
Having conceived a child, there is no way out – you either have to live with birthing a child, or you have to live with the knowledge that you killed a child.
You might disagree with that, but study after study is now showing that the impact of having an abortion is devastating to a woman.
You are right – calling a concieved baby “not a person” is cold hearted. Mia, the woman quoted in the article is well known for having suggested that killing a child is ok if it’s in the best interests of the mother – do you see where abortion leads?
As for the “awesome” thing, that’s quoting the post above.
With regards to:
I’m pro-choice because I believe women are people,
Mia forgot to say: they are people created to have children. That is their God given special role that men don’t have.
I’m pro-choice because I want to decide when I have a child,
If you want to decide when you have a child, why not be sensible and not get pregnant in the first place(i’m assuming celibacy is not an option for someone like Mia)
I’m pro-choice because sex should be awesome,
What???????????????????????? As if to say having a baby spoils all the fun. “The fun” is only half reason why we have such a thing as sex in the first place!
it may be cold hearted but its something that you all seem to forget. and any doctor who gives abortions will tell you that after a certain amount of time its too late. know why? because its a person. and if having an abortion is devastating to women then what do you think your doing by calling them killers. helping? all you do is add the cherry on top of thier sadness.
Are these the same doctors that promote partial birth abortions?
I’m sure from your side you think that anti-abortion campaigners don’t help women, but from my side I see the opposite. I see women who are told by the pro-abortion lobby that they should feel no shame, and are tossed out the door after their abortion with no regard for their mental health.
Guess who picks up the slack?
anti-abortion campaigners wow what a nice word for them. in my town we call them arrogant people. tell me how has shouting ever helped anything? and in regards to your statement about their mental health how are they helping? and please tell me who picks up the slack. and i also see that you have said nothing wrong about your side. hmm. do you think that they are right in what they are doing? because i sure as hell do.
by the way that last sentence was sarcastic.
I am personally a pro- choice activist. and since everyone is big on this website on reasons, Ill name five
1. It is a womans choice what to do with her body. Yes, I agree careful measures should be taken to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. But what happens in the case of the condom ripping or the contraceptive fails out? What happens if the womans in no condition to support a baby, even for the nine month term? only the woman can decide if she is ready to have the baby, no one else.
2. If a baby cannot survive outside of the womb, is it even a person at all? I can understand moreso if the baby had a chance, even with special equiptment, to survive. But if the baby cannot sustain itself outside of the womb, it’s almost the same as saying a child can build a house, whether it can perform that function or not.
3. In the case of rape and incest, why should the woman be burdened with a pregnancy she did not bring upon herself? It’s the equivalent of someone forcing you to buy a house you never even wanted. Just one day, some psycho comes to you and forces you to put a down payment on a house you never prepared to have nor were ready for.
4. What if a woman is physically incapable of bearing children? There have been cases of even twelve year olds dying in child birth because there body simply could not handle it. Dont they get a right to live?
5. A child predestined to live a life of fetal alcohol syndrome or even addicted to crack at birth because of poor choices by the mother should not have to be put through that misery. People will think I am radical for this, but do you let a dog live who is blind and becoming paralyzed? No. Why? Because even if the dog could survive a few more years after that, it would be inhumane to see the dog suffer day after day, nevermind the financial burden it would be to prolong the inevitable
I hope that even the extreme pro- life activists on this site can see my reasoning when it comes to abortion.
FINALLY!!! somebody with some sane reasons! i applaud you damien. 🙂
/bow
Why are you people so ignorant???the only people who have made reasonable comments on this whole issue are Asia and Damien!!
Abortion is not an easy decision to make at all but sometimes it is the best choice for that person. Every woman should have the right to choose.
Anti Abortion campaigners are pig headed and arrogant, what right do any of you have to make any woman feel so uncomfortable about a decision they have made or are about to make??
It is nobodys business but the woman (and her partner if she so wishes) on what they decide is best for them!
Thanks clare!! 🙂
1. If all men wore condoms, there would be no abortions.
I guess that’s it.
I’ve also looked at an American website debating abortion. I am so pleased I live in New Zealand. We have a woman leader which gives us an excellent role model for our daughters. [What – like stealing money to win elections? – S1] She has just as many men in her cabinet which is good for our sons, and I see a future charismatic emerging male leader, who will fit right in with how we view our men here. (I have both so equality matters).
Bush is trying to ‘bed down’ super [Do they fly too? – S1] conservatives in important positions before he steps down from office. [As do all presidents – Clinton appointed some shockers – S1] These are positions which cannot be altered by incoming governments and will seriously jeopardise the rights and freedoms of women there. [of course, that’s the left’s idea of what “women’s rights” are – S1] I shudder to think what National, which is top heavy with Catholics, will do here. [Unfortunately, nothing – S1]
America is drowning in religion [curious expression that! – S1] and the very people who are drowning it are the conservative christian right [as opposed to the conservative Christian left? – S1] who cannot see that until women play an equal part in a family, along with parental respect for their children and vice versa, there will never be a really good and decent society. [In my experience, it’s those “suppressed” Christian women driving it – S1]
In America, because of the large number of privately owned hospitals, many of them are owned by religious organisations, eg Catholic, who refuse to help women with incest, rape, abortions; [Provide some actual proof if you’re going to defame people – S1] women are being refused the choices they should have in that so called free country. [Yes, they can’t murder anyone in fact – S1] Even contraception is being refused in many of their chemists. [Now you’re just making it up – S1] How would women handle that situation here?
We should never allow privately owned hospitals to take over our government funded hospitals here. Private ownership equals private agendas.
Is America any better for those neanderthal-like conditions. It is a perfect example of a country we don’t want to emulate.
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[I think you’re been reading some websites of the radical left, and believing the completely unbelievable. Many of those hospitals you mention actually are there to provide charity to the poor. Yes, I have heard of cases where people have been refused “morning after” pill, but that was due to the ethics of the person in question, plus some confusion.
As for “contraception is being refused in many of their chemists” – I’d quite believe that many chemists refuse to stock some of the more dangerious items that feminists would tell us are essential for wellbeing, but generally your statement is false.
As for Bush, people knew exactly what he was going to do when he got in – if they didn’t want him, they should not have elected him. I note that no Democrat dare ever admit to being “liberal” – that (and the fact that they keep getting into power anyway) says a lot I believe. -S1]
first of all condoms are only 97% affective so even if they where a condom there is a chance she can get pregnant. second of all as an American i agree with the rest of what you have said. until women get equal rights then its not free at all. our country only treat a fraction of our country with the dignity and respect that they deserve. and i didn’t know that hospitals did that to women they shouldn’t have the right to do that. it NOT fair.
[“i didn’t know that hospitals did that to women” – that’s because they don’t. – S1]
Asia
I knew you would pick me up on that. But saying
“If all men wore condoms there would be 3% abortions”
does not sound quite so dramatic!
[Is this something you do all the time, use untruthful absolutes to sound more “dramatic”? – S1]
In New Zealand, they are trying to reverse any progress for women to be treated as human beings and to be able to make their own choices.
[Hm, that’s new to me – Oh, I get it, it’s another “dramatic” statement. – S1]
Also, Asia, don’t get me wrong. While Religion is not my choice, it can be very comforting to women and men, but I am targeting the religious figures who refuse to see women as equal human beings and know that by controlling women’s bodies, they control women.
[Wow, I’m so evil! – S1]
Women are always blamed for pregnancy, no matter the circumstances. It’s like the immaculate conception.
[?!? – S1]
Men, who supposedly are stronger than women, blame women for rape. Strange.
[Dude, you are smoking some serious stuff there! – S1]
As for Scrubone, the minute pro choicers have succeeded in stopping women having an abortion, they don’t want to know. They ignore the initial problem(s) that brought the woman there. They ignore the fact that the child may be abused because it is not wanted but the mother may not believe in handing the child over for adoption.
When the anti abortion campaigners hand over to each pregnant woman the money to have and raise the child, about $100,000 these days, I’ll believe they really do care. I suggest they start saving. But if they hand over money to the pregnant woman that means she won’t be in a vulnerable position then, so I guess that won’t be happening in a hurry. It’s all about control of a woman’s body and therefore her autonomy. I empathise with the few who really do want to help pregnant women keep their babies, but these few have been hijacked by the control freaks.
bobsydaisy – thanks for all the abuse.
I’m advocating adoption as an alternative, which is a win-win situation. So yes, there are a great many people who are prepared to put $100,000 and more into the raising of a child. I would myself.
You say we blame the woman. That’s a figment of your imagination, a selective reading of the facts. If we were able to easily identify men in a pregnancy that would be clear for all to see, but unfortunately we can’t.
I put it to you that you are anti-democracy too. you are not interested in the fact that, knowing exactly where Bush stood, the American people still elected him. He was the man they wanted.
“I am targeting the religious figures who refuse to see women as equal human beings and know that by controlling women’s bodies, they control women.”
Show me a single woman who is controlled by “religious figures” because the law denied her an abortion. I’ve known many types of chrisitans, and I have yet to meet a one where the man didn’t submit in some way to his wife’s opinion on abortion – heck, come to think of it the women I’ve known have been exceptionally good at getting their men to their point of view.
Don’t get me wrong – there are women who are controlled *personally*, but that is abuse, what we are talking about here is the legal, open access to abortion. Ironicly, that access (as opposed to abortion only being available in cases of abuse I hasten to add) has lead to more than one abusive and/or incestuous relationship continuing thanks to no-questions-asked disposal of the evidence.
The idea of “control of a woman’s body” is purely a feminist beat up – a convenient over-statement of the case, designed to raise fear and emotion. It isn’t even men who are trying to ban abortion – it’s women.
Women will never loose control of their bodies, thought I’m sure many would love for men to do so.
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Note: comments are closed on this thread – there is a newer post on Abortion for those wishing to comment further.