Christian, and christian values parties didn’t do so well in this election.
That’s quite understandable, the entire concept is tarnished badly. Graham Capill, Destiny’s antics, Field, it’s a mess. They most mainstream, the Kiwi Party isn’t a christian party, but that bases it’s policies on Judeo-Christian values. But they made several unimaginably major stuff-ups.
So why would anyone give their votes to any of them is beyond me.
That said, the Family Party’s strategy of going for an electorate is the right on in my opnion. If there is to be a push back against liberal policies, the groundwork must be done in local communities 3 elections ahead of time.
Things like getting involved in local councils, school boards of trustees and such.
Well what are you waiting for? Get on with it.
Was watching TV3 at 7:30, and their news updated reported that the smacking petition had “failed” because “people cheated by signing more than once”.
Quite aside from the fact that the petition has not failed, it paints those who signed as dishonest where reality is that all petitions have this.
The real story here is very, very different. From the Kiwi Party email:
The Government’s Statistician asked for a sample size of 1/11th to be carefully checked. That turned out to be 29,501 signatures out of the total count of 324,511. Of those signatures the Electoral Enrolment Centre ascertained that 25,754 where valid.
Accordingly, assuming that the sample was representative of the whole, the number of valid signatures should have been; 25,754 x 11 which equals 283,294. The number required is 285,027 so this indicates a shortfall of just 1,733 signatures!
However the Government’s Statistician has said that his best estimate is just 267,000 or a shortfall of 18,027; 16,294 greater than the 1/11th sample would indicate.
I think the 283,294 people who, based on the sample, validly signed the petition, deserve an explanation from the Government’s Statistician of that discrepancy. Why has he decided that the signatures of 16,294 people who are validly enrolled on the electoral roll are to be set aside?
The more I think about this weeks debarkle, the more I question what Copeland et al were trying to do with Destiny on board. I can think of some excellent reasons to ignore them.
- Destiny do not control any votes outside their church, and perhaps not even those. Destiny only got .6% of the vote in the last election, and only got those because Christian Heritage’s problems. I know people who were talking about voting for them, but with a proper Christian party setup would not even think of it.
- The “CHP Effect”. It was only after United Future arrived in parliament that the media realised that horrid Christians (who pray!) had actually infiltrated parliament and started their path to reinstating which burnings. I believe that UF did well because CHP took much of the flack, providing a party that could be pointed at as the “real radicals”. Destiny could have provided this function for the new party.
- Brian Tamaki has fewer faults than the public believe (he’s not wealthy from the church) but he has some massive ones none the less. He is a control freak, and his foray into politics has never been about the greater good. He was always going to dominate the scene and throw his weight around.
- Having Lewis as party co-leader is a joke, as he only has experience in a single electoral cycle with no MPs. Far better to get one of the old UF MPs to do the job, there are plenty to choose from.
Do I need any more reasons?
So as soon as the Christian party is announced, it starts to fall apart.
In this case it is the fault of Destiny screwing around, but it was going to happen no matter what. Let me explain.
About 15% of NZ’ers think they’d vote for a christian party. What they really mean is, they’d vote for their ideal christian party. And where do they find out how ideal a party is? From the 85% of people who would not support one.
What is more, a very large chunk of that 85% hate the very concept of Christians organising themselves into organised opposition to anything. They’re the ones you see blaming religion for all the world’s ills. If you don’t believe me, just cast your mind back to the “gosh, we should have checked out these people” comments from the media when United Future finally got a few into parliament – and those Christians were supposed to be the moderates.
The fact that Field and Destiny are involved here is incidental. If they weren’t screwing it up for Copeland, you can bet the media would just pull out file footage of Capill. Audry Young demonstrates this mindset: (Yes, he missed a vote he had no chance of wining, and gave National his proxy vote. Wopee)
His own resignation from United Future back in May was always going to take some beating – he left because of the anti-smacking bill but then missed the final vote against it later that night. He resigned to become an independent and then gave his vote to National saying he wanted to become its “49th MP.”
So Gordon, welcome to the real world of Christian Political Parties. Everyone hates you. Get used to it (if you aren’t already).
Update: Dave’s nailed it.
Gordon Copeland is a good MP who has been sucked into an arrangement by a bunch of ego-tripping idiots who couldn’t arrange a pissup in a brewery, let alone a conference to communicate basic information to the media. Destiny didn’t even bother to let Copeland know of details of a media conference that involved the announcement of a party where Copeland is co-leader. And because they didn’t tell Copeland that they were going to announce Lewis as leader they decided not to announce Copeland as leader either.
I never liked Dunne much. While his party gained a great deal from joining up with christian Future New Zealand, we always knew that he was only in the morality business for votes. Any vote in Parliament he’d always switch back to his true allegiances. Today he showed his true colours fully.
United Future is re-branding itself as a sensible, moderate centre party and leader Peter Dunne says membership is rising after the break with its Christian faction.
Since all the Christians have now left, it’s hardly surprising that membership is going up. That’s the only direction from zero.
Mr Dunne said during the party’s annual conference at the weekend that some had left but they were outweighed three to one by new members.
That I severely doubt. I suspect he’s talking himself up, hoping to make it true by saying it.
“There were people on the fringes who were interested in us but never really felt able to join because they saw us as being the self-appointed moral guardians of the nation, and now that’s not the case,” he said.
Don’t worry Peter – few ever say you as a moral guardian, no matter how much you spoke about the “pink agenda”.
“The hard core of the Christian moralist camp have gone but its opened the doors for a whole lot of other people.
“A lot of people we lost over the years have come back.”
Mr Dunne admits that when the merger took place he didn’t foresee some of the problems that were on the horizon.
“It became obvious after 2002, and it intensified during the term, that there were some people there with an agenda that was quite different, and it was holding us back,” he said.
You really have to wonder – how long this guys was in politics, and was still not able to tell someone’s agenda? It’s not like they were hiding the fact they were a christian based party. Perhaps he thought they were joking?
I guess those 7 other MPs did hold him back though. Next year, he’ll be able go back to his “instant caucus” mode.
Screenshot taken from the TV3 video page earlier.
Of all the things Destiny was marching for, stopping freedom of religion was not one of them.
If anything, they were asking for it to continue, as the alternative to a Christian state is an Islamic one, and Islam does not tolerate freedom of religion.
The Herald reckons that Destiny and Copeland will clash at the next election.
Yea, like an elephant clashing with an ant.
Destiny barely made more votes than they have members of their church. With a strong player like Copeland in the mix, they haven’t got a hope.
Unfortunately, Copeland hasn’t too much either but he’ll make a good showing. It is possible that they will break the threshold, but very unlikely.
The inevitable has happened – United Future is split. It really was only a matter of time.
I notice that Idiot/Savant at NRT hasn’t bothered to read up on those he slags off:
Finally, there’s a lesson in this for our politicians: you can’t trust Christian parties to deliver the votes they have promised – they will flake and betray you. Hopefully this will introduce a note of caution into any future negotiations with such groupings.
Um no. Actually, he’s supporting the government on everything UF said they would. This in spite of the utter repugnance of this current government.
So that would mean that Christians can be trusted to hold to their word, even if it means supporting something they hate. That’s the complete opposite of NRT’s statement.
I’m not holding my breath for an atheist correction though. Hopefully this transparent falsehood will introduce a note of caution into any future reading of such blogs.
Peter Dune is now making nice to the AG. It appears his liability is $4965.30, and this amount is no longer enough to buy his silence on the issue.
However, nothing can hide that Peter did attack the Auditor General, an independent watchdog.
He said those office holders “for the time being are entitled to public respect, whatever one’s view of their individual actions in particular cases”.
United Future says that if it is directed to do so, it will try to pay back taxpayers’ money unlawfully spent last election, but it won’t necessarily pay it all back if it is not directed to do so.
Yet another reason I do not support United Future.
Just heard on the radio that the Christian Heritage Party is closing down.
It was pretty much inevitable after Graham Capill’s antics.
The one good thing about CHP was that it made United Future look good, UF probably wouldn’t have succeeded if CHP did not exist, as they would have copped the flack CHP did.
One wonders what will now happen to the Destiny party that has also been very quiet after the last election.